Cache Update Issue on Custom Entity Field

[pauln]

Hi QMcKay

Yes so what yo are saying is a kinda cache thing right? So instead of creating more rules I might just close the ticket which will force the operator to reload the Customer

Not an elegant solution but saves a few rules and actions!

@emre would prefer SambaPOS to enforce the constraints as listed because it is just another “querk” to get around.
Just saying, as the fix for “Button Captions” worked a treat!

[QMcKay]

@pauln

kinda cache thing right?

Sort of, I guess. Suffice it to say, it does not step through the actions 1-by-1, check the constraint, then decide to fire that action or not.

@pauln

would prefer SambaPOS to enforce the constraints as listed

Somewhere along the way, this changed for some reason (quite a long time ago). I know it was not always the case, but only @emre can explain the reasoning, or at least (if I am wrong) the exact way this works when it comes to Action Constraints, and how it decides which Actions to fire, and when.

[pauln]

Hummm, its knowledge like that which has motivated my dedication to SambaPOS. Thanks @QMcKay let us see what emre has to say about it.

[JTRTech]

@QMcKay

Action Constraints are checked when the Rule is loaded, so that the Actions are sometimes “short-listed”.

If you have an Action that updates a certain value, and then another that checks that value, that action may have already been chosen for execution or not, before the value was updated.

I guess what I am trying to say is: if you update a value, have your next action be an Execute Automation Command action. Then within that Rule, place your subsequent action(s) within it. That way, you can confidently check your constraints. I know it means creating more Rules, but in some cases it is necessary to do it in this way.

I think I understand that but just want to confirm.

When the rule event triggers the rule it loads all the actions BEFORE any are fired?
And it is at this point the constraints are checked?

Actions are fired in sequence though right? Just only actions with valid constraints are loaded by the rule before begining the sequence?

This would be a very helpfull thing to corectly understand as I would have initially thought (by the sounds of is as paulin does) that the constraints were evaluated at the point that action haoppens.

[QMcKay]

@JTRTech

When the rule event triggers the rule it loads all the actions BEFORE any are fired?And it is at this point the constraints are checked?

Yes, this is my understanding. For those Actions that do not pass their constraint, they are “thrown out”. For those Actions that do pass their constraint, they are kept and fired, in sequence.

So if you have an Action that modifies a value, followed by another Acton having a constraint that checks that value, the action may not be valid (it may have been thrown out, or has been short-listed to fire anyway with disregard to the constraint since the value has changed).

@JTRTech

Actions are fired in sequence though right?

Yes, they are fired in sequence.

@JTRTech

I would have initially thought (by the sounds of is as paulin does) that the constraints were evaluated at the point that action happens.

It used to be this way, but that was a long time ago. It changed somewhere in v4. I will see if I can find the post regarding this.

I don’t want to speak too much more on this, because I might be interpreting it somewhat incorrectly. Only @emre can confirm the exact behavior, so we need him to chime in.

[QMcKay]

I found some posts where this is mentioned…

@emre

Oh unfortunately that won’t work as action constraints are pre-evaluated before executing actions so Load entity action will not populate entity tags used inside action constraints.

However you can chain an Execute Automation Command action instead of Navigate Module action. That will transfer loaded entity to second Automation Command Executed rule and you’ll be able to test loaded Entity via rule constraints.

Especially this one is what I remember, which is likely what you are experiencing in your scenario…

@emre

All constraint expressions evaluates at once to determine which actions to execute or not. Action execution starts after that. So changing setting values with actions during execution will not change constraints backwards.

[JTRTech]

@QMcKay

or has been short-listed to fire anyway with disregard to the constraint since the value has changed).

This I think needs clarification, not quite understanding this bit.

[emre]

Suppose you’ll execute two actions if ticket’s remaining amount is greater than zero. First action pays ticket and second action prints it. If it is already paid third action displays a “already paid” message.

So our actions are

1. Pay Ticket if Remaning > 0
2. Print Ticket if Remaining > 0
3. Display Message if Remaining = 0

If we process action constraints the one after what it does will be…

1. It will pay ticket
2. Skip printing as remaining amount is zero.
3. Display “already paid” message.

That was what SambaPOS was doing in earlier versions. After encountering such cases a lot we decided to process them at once and execute actions that are matching to constraint.

So @pauln you should create an automation command called “Update Ticket Reward State”. Setup a rule for that and execute 3,4,5th. actions in that rule. Finally you need to create “Execute Automation Command” to call Update Ticket Reward State. By doing this you’ll be able access latest state of points.

[QMcKay]

Let’s say we have a Program Setting named MYVAL.
And let’s assume the current value of MYVAL is 5.

We have a Rule with these Actions…

Action 1:
Constraint: none
Action: Update Program Setting MYVAL to contain the value 1

Action 2:
Constraint: [=TN(‘{SETTING:MYVAL}’)] > 3
Action: Show Message “Myval is greater than 3”

Action 3:
Constraint: [=TN(‘{SETTING:MYVAL}’)] < 3
Action: Show Message “Myval is less than 3”

Action 4:
Constraint: [=TN(‘{SETTING:MYVAL}’)] == 5
Action: Show Message “Myval is equal to 5”

Action 5:
Constraint: none
Action: Show Message “Myval contains: {SETTING:MYVAL}”

---

• Action 1 fires, which updates MYVAL to contain 1

• Action 2 fires, showing “Myval is greater than 3” because when the constraint was evaluated, MYVAL contained 5

• Action 3 does not fire and does not show a message because when the constraint was evaluated, MYVAL contained 5

• Action 4 fires, showing “Myval is equal to 5” because when the constraint was evaluated, MYVAL contained 5

• Action 5 fires, showing “Myval contains: 1”, because it has no constraint, and it reads MYVAL after it was updated.

---

@JTRTech

or has been short-listed to fire anyway with disregard to the constraint since the value has changed).

This I think needs clarification, not quite understanding this bit.

Action 2 fires because it was short-listed when the Action constraints were evaluated. At that time, MYVAL=5, so the action fires, even though we update MYVAL in a preceding action.

[JTRTech]

Thanks, makes sence, I would have taken that expectation based on the first part of your explanation it was a clarification/example rather than an exception.

[pauln]

Thank you everyone for your input and taking the time to outline proper use of constraints. Happy to split my workflow sequence into 2 pieces to refresh my button status.

[pauln]

@emre

So @pauln you should create an automation command called “Update Ticket Reward State”. Setup a rule for that and execute 3,4,5th. actions in that rule. Finally you need to create “Execute Automation Command” to call Update Ticket Reward State. By doing this you’ll be able access latest state of points.

Worked like a charm!

For those following the last bit, “Execute Automation Command” means create a new Action and refer that action to execute the new Automation Button Command.

[JTRTech]

@pauln

For those following the last bit, “Execute Automation Command” means create a new Action and refer that action to execute the new Automation Button.

You do know you don’t need a button right?

[pauln]

Oops - should have read Automation Command - thanks & fixed.

[JTRTech]

I’m suprised you haven’t used this before?
it can be very useful when building workflows if you want to fragment it in to sections. Obviously ask question performs a similar function with the buttons becoming the command values where this does it silently with a fixed value.

[pauln]

@JTRTech

You do know you don’t need a button right?

I confess I think I miss understood your reference @JTRTech!
So you mean I do not require to create an Automation Command Button under Automation -> Automation Commands ?

I was reading up on Fast Payment Buttons and could not find the Automation Command “ACM Close Settled Ticket” it does not exist in Automation Commands but can be called in a rule by “Execute Automation Command”.

Is this what you mean?

Ah ha - Fast Payment Configuration Task installs a Action: Execute Automation Command and you throw a Automation Command Action Name at this procedure. So this will save the extra step of creating an Unmapped Button - correct?

You just need to pass the New Action to the Execute ACMD Action.
I see emre did say “Execute Automation Command”.

This Beast:

[Jesse]

The only time you need to define an automation command is if you want a button. If you do not plan to use a button and simply want it for automation then you should not define it. It works just like states for example with states if you do not need to show the state in a ticket or entity screen then there is no reason to define it. States work just fine inside rules without needing to define one same thing with Automation Commands.

[pauln]

How do you get around Ask Question then?

The drop down list only features Automation Commands?

[Jesse]

LOL you should know by now that drop down lists are never restricted to just options in them.

Answer is I simply type one. The ask question will use what I type.

[pauln]

I was heading there and wondered how I call the Rule which does all the work when ACMD-Executed was called? Do I somehow pass it to the new routine I created for Fast Payments “The Beast Above”?
How do I type that?

Too Funny, Yea-No - just type a Name as it gets picked up by the rule.