Dual Pins for Users

I know many are abandoning the default user system for entity based setup however would it be possible to have 2 user pin fields?
Let me explain, at the local pub I have done samba for they ditched MSR from there unit as it was getting old and temperamental so at the minute (with autologout enable as switch user setup implemented) they are tapping their pin in for every transaction - fair enough - but for country pub this means tapping in pin every couple of minutes on a busy night - a bit tedious) but would like to give them an RFID reader and use fobs as much more reliable than MSR.
The issue is the RFID fobs use a very long serial for their pin.
While the RFID would increase efficiency they will inevitability continue to use a mixture of RFID and PIN.
I dont want to setup dual users for each person so thought you might be able to easily add a second pin/swipe code box so if either pins are entered (manually or by RFID) that user is logged in.
It will also mean should they forget their RFID they can still login manually.
Does that make sense?


Was going to request the same thing. This is something that is really needed especially when you have tablets also and want to use both pc stations and tablets simultaneously.

@eddhasaj do you mean a pin to login tablet but MSR/RFID for terminals?

I mean to have dual pins for a single user. So a waitress can use rfid to log in or pin both logging into the same account. RFID numbers can be too long to type in manually.

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Was there any more support for this?

It would defiantly be handy if using terminals with MSR/RFID etc and tablets on same system rather than duplicating users for a MSR and a manual pin for tablet.

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Sorry to ‘bump’ this again but though now v5 is released would be good to move to public request rather than beta to see if more interest from public users.
Am due to do a larger install with multiple tills and multiple tablets and would be very useful if this drew enough interest if it were to be implemented by time install day comes (couple of months away yet) :smile:
Would defiantly be very benificial for anyone using tills with msr/RFID and tablets and not using the user entities setup.

@emre any chance if its not a big job to slip this in to an update?
@Hasa and myself cant be the only ones who would find this beneficial…

I don’t read this request as “dual-pin support”. This how you expect solve your issue. What I’m reading from your post is “an alternative log-in method is needed”. When I notice something like that I try to find relationships with other login related needs and try to find a common solution. Adding dual pins may solve your issue but we shouldn’t add a specific feature for every case we encounter. Maybe we should execute a script when a pin entry does not match to allow custom logins. I’m not saying this will be a better solution but such approach will also be useful for user-entity method or who knows maybe we may allow customers to login with their membership id’s… I don’t remember where atm but we recently talked about logging users in via js api.

So I need to chew it a little more but a constructive discussion may speed things up.

A way to read pin pad entry at the login screen would offer increased functionality for other functions also.

Dual pin was what I imagined the simplest solution for mixed terminal with MSR/RFID and tablet use where longer pin from MSR/RFID would be unsuitable for manual entry on a tablet.

If there was a way to read keypad entries on the login screen coupled with a way to link additional values to a user would be a solution.

Some form of log in action would work well and could also work with another idea I was looking to implement a while back but couldn’t get to work which was a switch user without logout (card swipe while another user logged in checks against user pins, close ticket, logout and log that user in)

Member logins sounds interesting, a setup which lets them maybe check account balance or customer kiosk.
With future payment integrations could allow full kiosk ordering or unattended payments.

All of that can be accomplished using entity based system. I know the argument against it but I’m just saying entity based system is much more flexible.

I understand that but believe as of yet there is no ‘numberpad’ function for the nav screen to allow msr/swipe card access like there is on the normal login screen.
Additionally I would prefer to have the keypad on the nav menu also rather than clicking login and then typing pin on a popup/ask question as this adds additional steps into the workflow.

Sorry to drag up this post again but would really like to see a solution.
Personally would prefer dual user pin as like the default samba users system as entity based nav screen users lack functionality for msr/RFID login.

Know I’m probably flogging a dead horse here but any thoughts?

With the way the PMPOS is coming this maybe due to be revisited, mobile devices not often having MSR or RFID etc.

Know rfid etc are less suitable for mobile anyway as typically I would not have autologout on a mobile device as used/carried by a single user vs a terminal on counter where users chap and change which is where auto logout and rfid come in handy…

As it applies to PMPOS and mobile devices, can we assume the RFID/MSR will not be used; instead, a shorter PIN would suffice? If so (just spitballin here) …

Create Entities that align with the Users, with Name and PIN (a short number). The actual Users will contain the long RFID/MSR for tap/swipe login on a standard Terminal.

There is no “official” login/auth support for Mobile (yet), however, I have succeeded in creating a method that uses Users and their PIN to do so. This method could easily be adapted to use an Entity custom data PIN field instead.

I realize this does not help with using short PINs on a standard terminal when the Staff forget their RFID/MSR, but since you mentioned Mobile, the Entity/User method would work well for this.

I went back and read this Topic to see what the big deal is, and I understand Emre’s reluctance to simply add a “second PIN” field. Then we want 3 PINs, then Contact Details, so no, not a good idea to add 1 field to a User account.

However, I can see how it would be helpful to have extra “data fields” for a User, so that makes me think: "Why not just add Custom Data for Users, like we do for Entities? Of course, then I think, why do that when we already have Entities? And the answer then becomes clear: We cannot Login with Entities. Only Users can be used for Login (on a standard Terminal).

What about this idea: Extend Entity functionality so that an Entity Type can be “marked” as a User, and certain Custom Data Fields can be “flagged” as acceptable fields for PIN/RFID/MSR/Password Login use? Then you could have a PIN, an RFID number, an MSR number, or even a Text/Alphanumeric password, any of which would suffice to Login the same Entity/User. We might be able to get rid of Users altogether eventually, if the Permissions system could be ported/attached to an Entity Type…


This seems like a logical route to go.
I didn’t like the idea of recreating users using entities given there was the existing users system with roles etc already in place, it seemed counter intuitive other than increased functionality at cost of fair amount of customisation.
As you say, it would be a justifiable route to take to merge users into entities and have a default - presumably semi hard coded (i.e. can’t remote, edit certain fields maybe) so we can add our own fields, allowing for multiple pins, user info and more, keeping existing user functionality but gaining entity customisability…

good shout @QMcKay, ill vote for that :slight_smile: lol

I added Login User action and Pin Code Entered rule.

PS: Pin Code Entered rule will trigger when an invalid pin code is entered on login screen. For valid user pin codes it won’t trigger.

That will work for 5.1.61


:slight_smile: thanks emre :slight_smile: will make a tutorial on use once have this new property sorted.
Is stressing me right out sorting everything as keep having to help in the floor after the majority of the staff who were meant to be staying decided to leave last week before the purchase went through… Oh well lol

:thumbsup:awesome, cant wait to have login user action, if im correct it means you could change current user with the login user action right?

ps: any idea when you will release update(like i said really cant wait to have it :sweat_smile: ) anyways great work @emre

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Just realized this might enable me to create the original switch user setup I had hoped where nunberpad entered with ‘layaway’ ticket, logout user and login the user who entered pin (rfid) in numberpad :slight_smile:

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yh that is what im hoping for to :smile: